tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8685831362593315523.post3170992581210778246..comments2024-02-09T11:02:29.236-08:00Comments on Ready to wear (1640s style): A New Soldier's CoatThe Vicarhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06356584003246200967noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8685831362593315523.post-37836458800667269772017-03-03T01:23:48.647-08:002017-03-03T01:23:48.647-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Kstylickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11044319441951634521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8685831362593315523.post-15884741827361386822015-01-16T23:07:00.686-08:002015-01-16T23:07:00.686-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10744956491451483739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8685831362593315523.post-66290233035443900262014-01-11T16:41:11.354-08:002014-01-11T16:41:11.354-08:00Good to rule out the toil. Thanks for letting me k...Good to rule out the toil. Thanks for letting me know. Buttons are as likely to fall as are metal bandolier tops with two strings holding them on I'd have thought. I'm not convinced about metal buttons even though I've heard stories of musketeers firing them in the absence of bullets but it is a moot point. As for a raw edged coat worn by James I, I really am truely amazed. I'm sure fulling was done in England but I don't know where and it would certainly be an additional cost but maybe it outwayed the cost of turning up hems. Perhaps, I'm more likely to have seen the finer garments in places such as the V&A and they needed to be properly seemed and hemmed. In the 1970's I used 'The cut of men/women's clothes' as my pattern book and I still have a copy boxed up somewhere I can't get to but I do have a vague memory of having to add seams to the patters.<br /><br />From a personal preference I've almost always gone for fulled woollen cloth as it feels and looks better to me. I once had a very loose thread that I thought to be kersey at the time, which was provided to me by William Pennyman's (ECWS) regiment but that was more than thirty years ago - it still hangs in the wardrobe but, as is the case with all old garments, it seems to have 'shrunk'.<br /><br />I think the thing that strikes me about buttons, and I don't want to give away the secrets of someone who has been writing a thesis on the very subject, who incidentally supports the theory of metal buttons, it is so much easier and cheaper to use fabric or wood. I've 'kitted out' entire regiments before now. I have hands sewn every part of the garments and there is always waste fabric no matter how you cut it. The waste is perfect for button making - they are easy to do and FREE so it makes a great deal of practical sense to me. Any evidence of buttons being ordered Ian? I found orders for shoes, cloth for coats, shirts or material for shirts. I even found one order for gloves, which surprised me at the time but I don't remember any for buttons. I know someone who would be very interested in any order you can find for metal buttons so I do hope you can find some.<br /><br />As for burials of bodies. I was at the York 113 excavation. You might have seen me on the TV programme. The series was called 'History Cold Case'. Clothing was included in the burials and they were all thought to be soldiers. No buttons were found at all. One of the researchers said it was so unusual not to find at least on button, perhaps even dropped by one of the grave diggers. The York 113 were thought to be part of the siege of York and could have died of camp fever. There was even a reference that could be tied to their burial and it was of an entire company that was left to die in 'quarantine'. I suppose no one wanted to touch the bodies to avoid infection. They were in the Fairfax 'quadrant' and his troops were known to be poorly equipped, paid and dressed.<br /><br />Please let me know if you find some references to metal button purchases Ian and thanks for letting me know it had been worn.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15798953407776197567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8685831362593315523.post-63710192730959200842014-01-10T23:02:07.662-08:002014-01-10T23:02:07.662-08:00Hi Graham.The original was definitely worn extensi...Hi Graham.The original was definitely worn extensively and the sleeves were altered at one point to fit a second wearer, so it's not a toile.<br /><br />I was advised that metal buttons were a good alternative. The fact that not many turned up in the archaeology surely indicates that they were sewn on properly. Why would loads of buttons just fall off coats during a battle? I would also suspect that any bodies would have had their clothing removed before burial.<br /><br /> I'm not an expert on fabric manufacturing techniques, but I'm pretty sure there were fulling mills all over the country in the 17th century. I know there were in Stroud where they made the famous red for instance. <br />The original coat is quite crudely made and has fulled wool for the body, as has the Abingdon boy's doublet, so I'm not convinced broadcloth was just for the elite. In fact most of the doublets I've seen are of a much finer fabric. There is a raw edged coat in the V&A that belonged to James II and it was standard for frock coats, so why not the coats of the Civil War?The Vicarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06356584003246200967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8685831362593315523.post-3422144256546484442014-01-10T07:11:10.861-08:002014-01-10T07:11:10.861-08:00I notice they allowed him to be uncuffed on one wr...I notice they allowed him to be uncuffed on one wrist for the purposes of the photo but the wardens would still be close by I suppose.<br /><br />On a more serious note; I'm fascinated by this coat and thanks for showing it. Counties had to provide coat and conduct money for their recruits to the army. The money paid for their travel and sustenance from home to the border of the county/parish or even all the way to the army if required. The coat was provided locally during the Bishop's wars and, as I can find no standardization, quality may well have varied greatly. I have made several coats like the one in the picture but they have all been toils which have no seams and are only runnning stitched for fitting purposes. I'd be interested if the original showed any sign of being worn to rule out the theory it was made as part of a construction process.<br /><br />I'm very interested in the buttons. All the soldiers' coats I've made have had cloth or covered wooden buttons. Cloth and wood are perishable and since very few pewter buttons are found on battlefield excavations, I have always considered them the exception rather than the rule. Bearing in mind there were around twenty thousand soldiers on some of the battlefields, the percentage of metal buttons is small so I've always avoided them. I don't have access to attended databases, but metal button excavations were less common than finds of metal tops from bandolier boxes when I last checked.<br /><br />Raw edged C18th Guard coats is news to me too! I'm learning something here. The thing that most puzzles me about such a cheaply turned out coat is the expense of fulling the cloth. I've seen records of cloth being sent to Holland for such 'finishing' and there being some political and military posturing between our two countries when James tried to attract clothiers to London to carry out the process here. Why such an expensively prepared cloth for such a poorly turned out coat? But then, why if it was meant as a toil, would it not be made of felt? I'd like to rule out the toil notion if possible.<br /><br />Still, this is a fascinating find and it would provide another method of defining ranks within a regiment - quality of cloth, cut, fit and finish denoting purchasing power. Any further information would be much appreciated.<br /><br />I enjoy all your pictures and look forward to messages in my email telling me you have found another little gem.<br /><br />Thanks Ian.<br /><br />Kind regards,<br /><br />Graham.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15798953407776197567noreply@blogger.com